Spoilers ahead
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You’ve been warned!
There’s going to be a lot of random thoughts here. Bear with me!
And… the theme of last night’s episode? Who deserves to sit on the throne.
Tyrion and Varys seem to agree it’s Jon Snow. Varys is ready to switch sides ASAP, while Tyrion puts forth the marriage option. Either way, both men aren’t betting everything on Daenerys, who is fulfilling the Mad Queen theory. Also, did I miss where Tyrion and Varys find out Jon’s true identity?
We lost another dragon. Which makes horrible sense. Cersei and the Night King both knew taking out dragons was priority #1. What didn’t make sense, and had me yelling at the TV, was Daenerys riding Drogon straight at Euron with the dragon slayer weapon loaded and ready to fire
And, yet again, we have a scene where Sansa looks out for the people, saying that the troops need to rest and heal their wounds before fighting again. Daenerys disagrees. This is becoming a little like being hit over the head. Why not just come out and say, “”Yo, Daenerys doesn’t give a damn about anything but the throne!”
We saw this demonstrated again when Daenerys showed us her “love” for Jon was conditional. Lie about who you really are and we can be together. Even with the man she ‘loves’, her main focus is the throne.
Now I’ll admit, Daenerys got on my nerves ever since Khal Drogo died. It intensified after the Meereen fiasco. And last season I was ready to pull my hair out if she said ‘bend the knee’ one more time. One thing GoT has shown us is this: You aren’t equipped to win if you haven’t been playing the game all along. Wandering around in the desert doesn’t prepare you, because if you knew how the game was played, perhaps you would have come up with some sort of dragon armor or realized assassination usually trumps war. Don’t believe me? Ask Robb Stark or Catelyn Stark or Robert Baratheon or Jon Arryn or Renly Baratheon or Jon Snow (Yeah, I know. Jon got a do-over).
Which leads me to… Jamie and/or Arya taking out Cersei. It makes sense since last night’s episode demonstrated the vulnerability of Jon’s and Daenerys’ armies. It’s almost the same situation we faced last week, where the victory depended on killing the Night King.
This season could also be called: Tyrion gets everything wrong. He was wrong about Cersei sending her armies to fight the Night King. When he tells Sansa Cersei’s armies are coming, Sansa’s response is “And you believed her?”
Last night he (and Varys) was wrong again. Did he really attempt to appeal to Cersei’s humanity? Who thought that would work? I thought they’d simply go through the motions before they attacked the city and killed thousands of innocents. And let’s face it, why would Cersei give up the throne? Hell, if I were in her situation, I wouldn’t. She either remains on the throne or she’s dead. She knows this. And if she loses she’ll make sure Daenerys’ legacy as the Breaker of Chains is in tatters.
Daenerys needs new advisors, because Tyrion and Varys should have known better. Those two have seen Cersei’s ways up close and personal. There’s zero excuse for their mistake. I’m thinking Tyrion’s not going to make it while Varys abandons ship.
Bronn’s scene was anti-climatic, and, unless he does something, a complete waste of time. I guess you could say it provided motivation for Jamie killing Cersei, but if Jamie wasn’t on board with that plan by now I don’t see how Bronn admitting Cersei was sent to kill him makes a difference.
Killing Missandei didn’t seem necessary. We already know Cersei is awful. We already know Daenerys is ready to attack King’s Landing and kill a whole lotta innocent people. I guess it could be useful if losing her closest friend and her dragon completes her journey into madness. It just seems a cheap way to do this.
Could someone explain why Daenerys set up Gendry at Storm’s End and thus legitimized someone who has a valid claim to the throne?
The women of GoT are turning down marriage left and right. Sansa has brushed off Tyrion several times. She’s now better at the game than he is. Arya turned down Gendry’s proposal and is now heading to King’s Landing with The Hound. (Cersei’s name is on her hit list, and it looks like the Cleganebowl is on.) Does anyone think Daenerys will go along with Tyrion’s “Marry Jon Snow plan?” Yeah, me neither.
Yet again, I’m leaving out a lot. I’m still 100% Team Sansa (who has consistently proven she’s a wise and thoughtful ruler), and the only way she lets the North be part of the Seven Kingdoms is if Jon’s on the throne. Otherwise, the North will go it alone, cause she ain’t bending the knee to Daenerys.
Sansa told Tyrion off screen about Jon’s parentage before Tyrion left Winterfell after she asked him what if there was a better option than Daenerys.
That makes sense!
Sansa tells Tyrion about Jon’s parentage while on the parapet (?) as the armies are leaving…
Props to Ned Stark… Dude kept that secret for 20 years, but Sansa couldn’t keep it for 30 minutes!
Dany is a terrible mother… “My dragons are my children… My dragons are my children!” If they are, then treat them as such… Don’t lock them in a pyramid basement… And don’t fly them recklessly into battle. I mean, FFS, this group of idiots were already ambushed by Urinal Greyjoy back in Season 7, yet here we are, less than a year of time elapsed in the narrative, and they fall victim AGAIN to the SAME attack, losing a dragon in the process… Not for nothing, if all those dragonbows were mounted on the bow of those ships, why not fly in a half-circle and then blow fire up their asses/sterns?
Disappointed in the episode… Felt unnecessarily drawn out in certain places and bizarrely abbreviated in others… Never in a rhythm. I do like the “Thelma & Louise”/”Arya & Hound” thing that’s being set up… but remain skeptical that the show runners don’t fumble that sure touchdown too..
This!
“Not for nothing, if all those dragonbows were mounted on the bow of those ships, why not fly in a half-circle and then blow fire up their asses/sterns?”
I was yelling the same thing!
And I think Sansa should have told. Especially when you consider Daenerys tells Jon, ‘if he loves her, he will never reveal who he is’. Sansa probably saved Jon’s life – because, lord knows, someone always has to save Jon’s life. 😉
Disappointing episode. In reverse order. Why didn’t Missandei grab Cerseis arm and jump off since she was going to die anyway? As already noted, how about flying around to the stern and giving Euron a dracarys up his ass? Why didn’t Danaerys do a little scouting? You have an air force. It’s not just there for interdiction and close air support. It can be used for reconnaissance also. What you just sail into the Blackwater with not a care in the world? You knew Euron had a friggin fleet! Why does anyone ever tell Sansa anything? Ned Stark lost his head because and she suffered for years because she couldn’t keep her mouth shut and now this? I swear! Yeah, Sansa that means nothing when it’s your mouth that is saying those words. And of course, Jamie just picks up and leaves for what? Is he going to protect Cersei? A poor plot device just to get him to the finale, where I expect he’ll die defending Cersei (which is ok by me). And what about the Free Folk heading back north? Their cause is won and now they are just done? What the hell kind of gratitude is that? Should have left them north of the wall!
Anyway, I recognize this is an abbreviated season and the pacing of a episodes demonstrates that the story arc is on the down slope. The plot points are too convenient as if they are in a hurry to get everyone in their proper place for the last act. I’m somewhat dissatisfied with this season after having gone through seven seasons of pacing that permits proper exposition of the characters and events. Now I’m glad that Martin is taking forever to finish the last two books. At least I know he isn’t rushing things.
Stop picking on Sansa! 😉 Other than her being 12 or 13 and getting her Dad killed (something I’d say she learned from) what else has she spilled the beans on? I’d say she’s one of the few who have learned lessons from mistakes.
Telling Tyrion wasn’t a bad move, imo. She knows Tyrion is honorable and will be conflicted in his loyalties and move to protect Jon, as well as Daenerys. Since Sansa (and Arya) see exactly who Daenerys is, keeping Jon’s identity a secret could be a fatal mistake.
Preach, Brother Dave! Preach!
Cersei killed Missandei knowing it would goad Dany into a dumb attack. Her last word was the plea to burn the whole city down….. I’m guessing it is going to work. I’m also somewhat wary of what else* might be in the Red Keep. I dont think Cersei used all the WildFire to end the congressional investigation…. i mean “kill the high sparrow”. Considering the populace there is dumber than in America, she could burn down the Red Keep herself, say it was Dany, and the idiots will go along with it.
Sansa sees Dany for who she is. An unfit ruler… for Westeros anyway. I think she is tapping into some of LF’s chaos theory. She knows no one there is truly loyal to the Dragon Queen. The Lords of the Vale and Riverrun will follow Caitlyn Tully’s daughter.
As for Gendry, according to Dany, Robert never had a legitimate claim to the throne in the first place, so therefor, neither does Gendry.
She opened that with what COULD have been interpreted as a threat, then put him in her court… it is honestly the only smart move she’s made since burning the Dosh Khaleen… although she did it in such a transparent and petty way, she undercut her own political savvy. Im sayin it again, if she lives, she’s not staying in Westeros.
Poor Jamie. No one bought that “im horrible you should hate me” farewell to Brienne.
If he makes it back, finding out that Cersei is going to tell everyone the baby is Euron’s will finally push him over the edge. I dont think he kills her, but i think he dies trying.
ONE MORE THING…. Fuck Jon. You do NOT just abandon your pet (poor buddy lost an ear!) like that…
“He’d like it better in the north”….. fuck you Jon.
He’d like it better WITH YOU. Just grow up and say a dog is too much responsibility. I’m more mad about that than any death so far this year. Hopefully Ghost links up with his sister’s pack and has a good happy life away from shitty Jon. (im rooting against him in general now because of that)
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Thanks from reminding me about Ghost. What the hell! He just leaves Ghost like he was some stray that wandered by? I would dracarys his ass for that! If they were going to treat Ghost like that, they should have left him out the show. You don’t ever leave your pets. Ever. They are family.
BTW, did anyone catch the Starbucks cup? Other than Jon proving he’s a terrible pet companion, it was the lames part of the episode.
Enjoying the ongoing drama of a TV show is just fine, of course. I’ve been devoted to “Breaking Bad,” “Mad Men,” “Sopranos” and some others. But could somebody tell me in a sentence or two (or more) just what the appeal of this show is?
As a superfan of the books…which I got in to because the show was so good…… I have no idea anymore.
This is a post-modern fantasy where the more traditional memes are not followed. “Heroes” and “Sheroes” are subject to being killed at any time. Very few characters have “plot armor.” WFIW, I expect an ending as satifying as “Sopranos.”
Seems like a reasonable answer.
My interest in the show is a result of the books. People think it is a medieval fantasy story. But it really Is a story filled with political intrigue and jockeying for influence and position all in pursuit of power. Strangely enough, in the world where women are superficially adornments and objects, the women have most of the power and influence. Try reading the first book “A Game of Thrones” and see if you don’t get hooked.
I do think that would help.
Lots of chatter about flaws in the writing of this episode. Dany’s military strategy is terrible. She should fire Tyrion and Varys, they aren’t very smart.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the thing that got a lot of people mad – Sansa saying that she developed character from rape. It’s what terrible writers do – though generally bad writers use rape to develop male characters and female ones. The other part I saw a lot of chatter about was Brienne turning into a tears clinger and Tyrion being an ass about virginity with Brienne.
A “defense of Brienne” i read was that even strong, powerful people can be crushed by locex ones who fall back onto destructive behaviors. Swap out Cersei for drug addiction and Briennes reaction is understandable. She wants Jamie to know hes better, he deserves better, anx his self loathing kills her.
I think I blocked out that bit of awfulness, UI. GOT has used rape gratuitously since the beginning. It did a huge disservice to Sansa’s character’s growth. She learned survival, leadership, compassion and strategy by paying attention, not by being raped. I don’t think there’s another character on GOT who has grown (and learned) as much as Sansa – a person no one liked at the beginning. The fact that she is still standing (with all of the North behind her) is beyond impressive. She deserved better than the writers gave her with that scene.
I don’t consider the theme that Sansa developed character from being raped to be either fantasy or a trope. All people are the sum of their experiences. Sansa’s experiences shaped her. Having suffered so much she has demonstrated resiliency and strength, that might not have surfaced otherwise. As far as rape, sex, and violence being gratuitous, perhaps it is, but in that created world, all of those go hand in hand and ultimately have their parallels in our real world, which is filled with rape, sex, and violence. Even so characterization of such as gratuitous I believe is in error because such stuff is a feature of Westeros, et al and not inserted for the prurient interest of the masses. My judgment regarding the quality of show is how closely it hews to the books in terms of capturing the totality of Martin’s creation. The show does the books justice in my opinion.
I think what UI was pointing out was how Sansa said she developed character from rape. That isn’t true. All of her experiences shaped her. To sum it up as ‘rape me made me who I am’ does a huge disservice to her character and ignores everything else she experienced. It’s also very lazy writing we see far too often. No one in GOT has been around so many horrible, dangerous people as Sansa has, and survived.
I guess I’m just tired of books/movies that rely on these tropes. There are a gazillion Westeros out there. It isn’t unique or creative.
It isnt JUST in Westeros though. Think about just other HBO shows. (not to mention most media) Sexual assault and abuse…. while it does happen to most women in the real world… is highlighted as what makes a female character strong. All too often it feels like a message of ‘make the best of it”.
Sansa outright delivered a line that the things Ramsay did to her made her. She surely learned from LF, but that was mostly because shes smarter than he was and got better than him at The Game in a matter of months. She’s powerful IN SPITE of all that… not because of it.
I have no disagreement about the show/books. The rape scenes in the books are actually MORE horrifying than the shows, so good on them for actually toning down Ramsay’s wedding night. I dont personally consider the ability to write a shocking rape scene the mark of a good author. It’s just the mark of a man who spends a lot of time concocting rape scenes in his head.
Yes! That’s what I’m saying – Westeros isn’t unique. We’ve seen it all before. Again and again and again. Can you imagine shows/movies where a man in a horrible/dangerous situation always had to give a blow job (or was threatened with having to give a blow job) and how he said it made him who he was today? Not the strategies he came up with or what her learned.
The main one that comes to mind if American History X…. and there a prison rape made a Nazi not wanna be a nazi anymore.
the show has always handled it poorly. In the books (puts on nerd hat) Dany’s wedding night to Drogo was consensual on her part….. yes she was 13… no, she hadnt really consented to the marriage….. but he didnt bend her over and rape her like he did in the show. Drogo was hesitant to proceed because she was crying for 7’s sake! The book framed that night as her insisting and claiming her agency. It ruined his character, it ruined their chemistry, it made me not beleive that he was her “sun and stars”. From the get go, it’s been a problem.
“for 7’s sake!” Heh, heh. Good one. I’m monotheistic, so I think they are all aspects of the One, who just might be the Lord of Light. Not that we will ever know, because the only person who can tell us is some old guy who will probably be gone before he finishes.
Maybe Jon is doing the loving thing by leaving ghost behind – he’s headed to another battle, uncertain of his fate, anticipating there will be dragon fire (at the time he left Winterfell there were 2 dragons, one of which he’d likely have to ride) or wildfire. I think he loves Ghost and wants him safe with Tormund.
Nope. He had Ghost in the front line against the Dead… He could leave himcat Winterfell with Sands Burnie SENDS HIM AWAY. The goodest boi lost a damn ear for Jon and he WONT EVEN GIVE GOODBYE PATS…. screw that bastard. I hope Drogon eats him.
Wow i wish i could edit. He could leave Ghost with Sansa but sends him away. He doesn’t want to see Ghost when he gets back. My anger at jon makes my autocorrect problmes worse than usual.