The dam broke today. Perhaps it was just organic after writer Tina Dupuy shared her own experience with Al Franken and groping. Perhaps it was an organized effort among the Democratic caucus organized three weeks too late. Regardless, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and several other Democratic women senators led their colleagues in calling for Minnesota Senator Al Franken to resign after more allegations emerged from women who said he sexually harassed them. Even Tom I want to cut Medicare Carper, who should consider his own future what with his own domestic violence story lurking in his past.
But finally, it looks like Al Franken will resign. I am sad. Al Franken is and was a good Senator. But he was a bad man. And in this new world, bad men who mistreat women, whether through harassment or outright abuse or rape, are no longer to be tolerated. Period.
I am sad that it took this long for that simple fact to settle in with our Democratic Senate, and among our Democratic, liberal and progressive colleagues. It still hasn’t and probably won’t ever settle in for some. And they are to be shunned from society as fervently as we on the liberal left side of the political spectrum shun racists. If misogynists want a political home, they, like the racists, are free to join Trump on the right.
Why did the Democrats finally jump on board the Resign Now train? Josh Marshall explains that it is all about constituency. “With what now seems like Al Franken’s inevitable resignation tomorrow, I wanted to re-up this post from a week ago on who gets forced to resign and who doesn’t. It’s not the press’s fault that Donald Trump is still President and Al Franken is about to an ex-Senator. The same applies to Roy Moore. All of these incidents play out based on the constituency of the accused or the larger organization they represent. That applies whether it’s consumers or voters or comparable category. Most Trump supporters simply don’t care. Same with Roy Moore.”
The Democratic constituency cares. That’s the difference. And we shouldn’t stop caring just because the Republicans don’t. And I bet you anything that Senate Democrats or the DNC got back some polling today showing just how much the Democratic constituency cared about this and just how angry they were that some Democrats wanted to protect the harassers among us.
And the fact is that this is pretty meaningless in the long run if we are the only ones who care about this.
Then again, I just read a suggestion that Franken should just change parties and then everything would be OK.
Both Bruce Bartlett and Norm Ornstein are on Twitter arguing against asking Franken to step down.
I was kind of skeptical at first , but now I’m starting to see it. The Democrats are actually purging in an attempt to gain the moral high ground so they can yet make another attempt at damaging the Republicans before the upcoming elections. I kind of feel sorry for Al Franken and John Conyers, that they were caught up in the expediency of this prudent purge…..Don’t forget, you still have yet to throw Bill and Hillary under the bus, lest you risk being taken seriously. Remember, Bill Clinton is still a rock star to many people in your party even as his actions were documented in full(cigar) detail .
Bill Clinton has been called out here.
Do you remember Clarence Thomas? Will you apply your standard to him and other Republicans?
Clarence Thomas made a bad attempt at a joke about a pubic hair in a soda. Not quite the same thing as the Bill Clinton scandal .
scandal(s)
And the whataboutism never ends. You deal with the issues in front of you, not the ones in the rear view mirror. Clarence Thomas sits on the Supreme Court. Blake Farenholt is still in Congress. Tend to your own house before you come back to call for ancient history to be addressed.
I’m not calling for anything to be “addressed” I’m just saying people won’t buy this whole purge if you give the Clinton’s a pass. If you would have had your way, Bill Clinton would be in the White House right now, so it’s not so much “ancient history”.
People are buying it enough to resign. So there is that. Credibility is not found in the rear view mirror. And you can find very recent polling that will tell you that if we had our way, we would want Barack Obama back. So much for that stupid bit of whataboutism.
No, you voted for Hillary, and that would have actually put Bill back in the White House.
…..and Bill Clinton is still in the news practically every day. (Chelsea was there)
Not as President. And yet you guys are putting your chips down on pedophiles and other perverts on the daily. And never seem to have a problem with that. Why is it? Why is it that everyone thinks that only Democrats will do the right thing? Because it looks from here that the Party of Lincoln is now the Party or Pedophiles.
I personally don’t take to fire and brimstone politicians, especially those facing accusations like Roy Moore has, but the fact is that if he hasn’t broken the law, and his constituency votes him in, wouldn’t that be a disenfranchisement of that constituency if he was forced out, which I hope is the case anyway?….Could end up being a Constitutional crisis .
Pedophila is against the law.
While pedophilia is a much more loaded term, he’s actually an ephebophile. Yes, there’s a difference, but don’t let that get in the way.
If it’s the law you’re interested in, nobody has found a way to charge him for what he did, so he’s on a par with Hillary Clinton as far as the GOP is concerned.
You keep thinking there’s some political benefit in this, and the evidence keeps showing the opposite.
You keep thinking that there is some mansplaining here that you can do that interests someone. Everyone gets that assaulting 14 year olds much less dating them is a pretty big read line. Everyone gets that an older guy cruising for very young women is a pretty big red line. In this case, enough of a red line to ban Moore from the mall. There’s likely a statute of limitations on criminal charges and the political benefit is to continue to remind people how the Party of Family Values simply is not.
Yes, everyone gets it, but very few people vote based on it. If that’s mansplaining, maybe you ought to listen for a change.
Not much point in listening to a message that has always been rejected here. Get into *thic* conversation and stop lecturing people. Because you already know no one here is at all interested in that.
So serious question here – trying to put aside partisan politics for now – why are all these current accusations seeming to come from the worlds of media/entertainment and politics? I’m sure it happens all the time in business, in sports, legal circles, etc.
Is there something different about politicians and media figures that makes this more prevalent in those worlds?
Or are the women in these circles more confident and feel able to come forward at this point?
Oh,my guess is that it is happening in the private sector as well. You just won’t hear about it….it’s called payments and a non-disclosure agreement.
The entertainment industry is the private sector. But Uber famously has a systemic problem with sexual harassment, one that its founder was sidelined for. There are multiple Silicon Valley firms and VCs that have high profile sexual harassment issues.
Politics and Entertainment are what the MSM is focusing on. If you cant see that it goes far beyond that, you haven’t looked closely enough.
Academia and Tech industries are hopefully next. There are also many MANY problems construction/manufacturing… ya know “MANLY” jobs.
A woman close to me is a very skilled machinist and had to leave that entire industry over the misogyny. She said if she ever had to go back, she’d become a concealed carry permit holder.
Breaking: Harold Ford gone from Morgan Stanley position. Private sector, and he’s fired for a sexual harassment accusation. There you go, XYZ.
Feel free to pat yourself on the back, this is the beginning and not the end. If Franken resigns the Republicans will move on to the next target, all male Dems are going to be attacked going forward. No Republicans will resign or even care, they never do. The next round of “victims” are waiting in the wings and are being eagerly sought out by the Republicans, and the corporate media will lap it all up like usual. Ever wonder why the Republicans can still win after their frequent outrages? Suggest you look no further than what is going on now as we’re in the process of stabbing ourselves in the back with a rather rusty knife.
It’s no secret that republicans are all bad people.
“And I bet you anything that Senate Democrats or the DNC got back some polling today showing just how much the Democratic constituency cared about this and just how angry they were that some Democrats wanted to protect the harassers among us.”
Go ahead, produce it.
For comparison, some 600 people quit Minnesota Public Radio over the Garrison Keillor allegations. About 200 joined. Same state, similar situations.
You have everything but evidence on your side.
Question: Is Tom Carper a “bad man”? Or does that only go for butt-grabbers?
Carper joined the calls for Franken to resign yesterday.
Yes, he did. Which makes him what?
Old, ugly and a DINO, It’s the old Delaware politician way at it’s finest.
Just a strategic note here: Had Franken gone through an investigation and Senate “trial,” it would provide the precedent for doing the same to Moore. You just gave that up in order to give Blue Dog Kirsten Gillibrand an inside track at the nomination in 2020.
I wanted the investigation. And if Alabamans want to vote for Roy Moore, who’s going to stop them?
I’ll give you this: If this works out the way you seem to think it will, it will have been worth it to sacrifice Franken. I simply don’t believe it will work out that way, and I think the chances of it are incredibly small. I think there is a greater chance it will hurt, for all the reasons I’ve said, than help.
Why that’s “mansplaining” is for you to justify. A man explaining things is not automatically “mansplaining,” and while you may understand more than I think you haven’t demonstrated that by what you’ve written.
My strong feeling about this is based on what I perceive as backlash against the anti-deplorables tenor of Clinton’s campaign. That approach took a sure win and turned it into a close loss. I fear the same will happen again and again until we get a different message.
What is true, is that you don’t know how I think this will work out. Then you can rethink your mansplaining in terms of that.
Why don’t you spell it out then? You wrote the value is in “reminding everyone the party of values is simply not.” I believe that’s wrong. They think their values are just fine; it’s ours they think are inferior. This does nothing to change that.
Was that misrepresentative of what you meant?
Also, are we paying attention to language here, or are you just jerking your knee? I said “the way you seem to think it will,” not “the way you think it will.” There’s a difference that I”m sure you’ll see if you read it more slowly.
I’m a registered Republican. For the record, NOT all Republican’s like what is going on and yes we do have family values.
bullshit Anono. Until you people start actually taking a stand against “men” like Trump and Moore, those people represent you. I have not met, in person, one single rethug who has the integrity to actually defy your dear leader.
You are a registered member of a party who loves pedophiles and predators. Own it.
“family values”…. i.e protect your family and screw everyone else, right?
Right back at you, Ben. I know my values!
I am paying attention to language — the first implies you might know what I am thinking and the second states you know what I am thinking. Both quite utterly avoid the question — What are you thinking the end game is? — before having on.
No, the first SAYS (not implies; you mean you inferred, not that I implied) that your statement SEEMS to indicate the thing I say. If it doesn’t, you say, “No, I meant this.” Or, instead, you get dismissive so you don’t have to engage at all.
What DO you think come about as a result of this? Is this a Good Thing or a Bad Thing?
This sanctimony is why you’re losers. I prefer liberals who win, but you keep self-destructing. Maybe you should stop womansplaining.
Is this the principled solution? By every metric I can think of, it’s correct. But it’s also wrong. It’s wrong because we no longer inhabit a closed ethical system, in which morality and norm preservation are their own rewards. We live in a broken and corroded system in which unilateral disarmament is going to destroy the very things we want to preserve.
Well, if you agree with that, why didn’t you just say so? I agree with it too.
Playing nice in the playground, again.
My position is still right here. And I’ve posted nothing that indicates that I’m part of the 0 or 1 atmosphere that people seem to want. But I’m always about pointing out the failure of Family Values Republicans. Because most of them really do know that they are fucked up over this. It is why they build such extensive rationalizations over these things. Ask any Roy Moore supporter if they would be fine with Moore dating their 14 year old daughters. They do know what’s up. Many that I know personally are embarrassed by all of this, but they are in it. Because they have an infrastructure that gives them permission to be deplorable.
Cassy:
Feel sorry for you. Just because someone is Republican, they have no family values and are deplorable, in your eyes. Maybe, your just meeting the wrong type of Republicans or your just intolerant?
Feel sorry for yourself. Your party is supporting known sexual predators — GRIFTUS and Moore to start. You don’t get any claim to Family Values when this is what counts as leadership in your party.
“Just because someone is Republican, they have no family values and are deplorable,”
Exactly. Maybe there were decent republicans 10/20 years ago… no more. You know what your party is, you know what they support.
And I, for one, am intolerant, Anono.
I am intolerant of racists and pedophiles. I am intolerant of sexual predators and greedy fuckwads who take away people’s earned benefits then call them entitled for being upset about it…I am intolerant of people who think it is noble to sneer at people who need financial assistance while benefiting off of corporate welfare. I am intolerant of the bastards ruining this planet.
you, and rethug shit stains like you, are VERY tolerant of these things. Your chosen party celebrates them ffs. And that is why calling yourself a republican makes you all of those things. If you dont like it, change parties or fix your own. But stop whining about how you are made to feel a sad when people associate you with all the things YOUR CHOSEN PARTY actually is.
fuckwads, rethug shit stains. Wow, do you kiss your kids with that mouth?
I know Demo’s and we disagree on some issues, but at least I care & respect their beliefs. And we can be on friendly terms.
You……well that might be another story!
NO kids. Why the hell would I condemn more humans to live in the world your party has created?
If your belief is that a child predator can be excused because the letter next to his name matches yours, you beliefs deserve no respect. There is no reason to be friendly to people who are working toward what is sure to be the destruction of our society.
Sorry Ben, that is not my belief…..God create this world. No, I don’t think the guy should be able to run for office. Unfortunately, he has a right to run, because he has not been convicted. I wouldn’t vote for the guy.
Trent Franks resigns, because his family values include asking subordinates to be a surrogate for you.
This one completely gobsmacked me. Guys groping women I understand. This, though? Maybe you have to be a fundie to understand, because I’m stumped. Who does this?
If Franken had anything to do with Franks leaving, I’m willing to admit I was wrong. Seriously, if this gets Republicans as well as Democrats to follow his example, then it was worth it.
Franks is one of the most hard-core anti-abortion voices in the House. The country is better off no matter who replaces him.
People who think The Handmaid’s Tale is a How-To manual, that’s who.
But this twitter rumor could have something to do with it too:
He was under investigation, so I’m guessing he was on that list.
I thought Handmaid’s Tale right away, too. Eww, what if he wanted to do it like the men in the novel?
No matter how weird I think people are, they turn out to be weirder.
Bet he asked them if they wanted to make babies the old fashioned way! 🙂
I confess I’ve never had this problem, so I have no idea how people normally go about finding a surrogate. But even I know this isn’t the right way.
There are agencies that offer this service. He had zero reason to approach his staff.
Below zero, I’d say. This must be yet another weird fundamentalist sex thing. Remember, among that crowd Roy Moore looking for an underage virgin makes complete Biblical sense.
Breaking… Roy Moore’s accuser admits forging yearbook inscription… what else did she lie about?
Betcha creepo Franken wishes he could take back his resignation…
she said she added the date, ya goof-ball. I wont link my comment because you didnt link yours, but ANY amount of looking, other than reading the Faux News headline, would have told you that.
And if you look at the signature, it’s clear the date and location are different handwriting from your party-leader’s love note.
Your honor, I swear, I only forged part of the document… the rest is real, I swear.
C’mon dude. It’s the worst forgery since I faked my parent’s signature on my report card in 5th grade.
i think you just got caught defending your creepy uncle of a party mascot and cant handle being corrected.
This is what desperation looks like. The need to mischaracterize one event, ignore all of the other accusers to convince yourself that you are not supporting a real sexual predator.
Arrest him then! And let’s move on. But, for you that would not be good enough. Yea, CNN started with the stories on Trump and Franken. Fox started with the fires in California, Priorities, Cassy???? It works both ways.
Comparing news stories is also desperation. The NYTimes has stories on Franken, Puerto Rico ( under reporting of the dead), the Pope thinking about changing the Lord’s prayer, the atrocities of Boko Haram and how the GRIFTUS’ NY buddies have issues with the tax bill among others. This isn’t a contest, moron. If you can defend Moore as part of the Family values of the GOP, then have at it. No one has time for your whataboutism or deflections to this dumb ass stuff.
Your narrow minded thought process, again. You read what you want to read. I’ve said; Arrest him! I don’t support Trump, I did not vote for Trump, period, the end.
You hate, that is the bottom line! Hate all people, who don’t see things exactly as you do! What a way to live. You call people name, but you’ll criticize others, who do the same. Go back and live in your utopia!
Here’s another one of your boys — he was sent to jail this year, but the PD released the body camera tape today:
Here’s one of yours. Cost taxpayers nearly a quarter million dollars.
We can do this all day.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/alcee-hastings-sexual-harassment
Nice deflection. I keep saying this isn’t a D or R issue, but I get score keeping is all you have.
You keep trying to put these incidents into a political, entertainment, media box while skipping the obvious box that links all of these cases. Well, not all these cases. We now have two politicians with under-aged children – and that’s a box that stands on its own.
You posted fake news yesterday (and today) about a forgery. First, you don’t seem to know what that word even means. She added the date. I did this with my children’s cards to me. I added the date. Does that mean they didn’t make the card? That I “forged” their card to me?
Merriam Webster:
Definition of forgery: the crime of falsely and fraudulently making or altering a document
She admitted to altering the document. She initially attributed the entire yearbook inscription to Moore and then admitted she wrote part of it. She committed a forgery.
Nope. She didn’t alter, she added a date/location. That’s not forgery.
So if someone writes you a check, and you add a few zeroes to the end of it, what crime have you just committed?
Reading comprehension really isn’t your strong suit, is it?
Nope. If someone writes you a check, and you add a notation/description on the bottom left line to remind you about what the check is for is what we’re talking about.
What you’re talking about is altering the original content of the check. That’s not what happened with the yearbook.
Actually not a very good deflection. Only one of these two guys campaigned on demonizing gay people and drugs. Oops. One more Family Values fail.
No. She originally attributed the entire inscription to Moore. Then admitted she added part of the inscription herself.
She lied and she committed a forgery.
Please provide proof (with credible links) that she “originally attributed the entire inscription to Moore”.
Hint: She never claimed that.
Of course she didn’t claim that. But this is the problem with people like xyz completely detached from reality. He doesn’t even get that Fox had to retract this story — meaning that even they couldn’t figure out how to spin their way past this. And xyz has no spin skills — just shows up insisting on a lie,
She presented the yearbook at the original news conference, and said Moore signed it. Never mentioned at the time she added the inscription below. At best she lied by omission, at worst she committed fraud and forgery.
Pro tip: When your defense is “I only forged part of this document”, start thinking about a plea bargain.
Pro tip: When Gloria Allred is on your side, start looking for the exits.
Pro tip: When trying to win a Senate seat in Alabama, don’t run a pro choice candidate. If the Dems had managed to come up with a reasonable alternative the seat probably would flipping.
Moore leading in RCP average by 3.8. It appears the good people of Alabama can recognize fakes and frauds.
@XYZ: No, it appears the people of Alabama are just as immoral as you. No surprise there.
Also, who in God’s name told you you were a pro? You’re a typical conservative dipshit, aping the typical conservative talking points. That doesn’t make you a pro, it makes you a hack. And a fool, but you demonstrate that every time you comment.
The “worst forgery since I faked my parent’s signature on my report card” is a lie. And Fox was forced to edit its headline, homepage, Facebook status and delete tweets after pushing this bullshit.
Taking bets on what bits of whataboutism come from xyz after being caught out here.
Caught out on what? She admitted to forgery. Case closed.
Even your boys at Fox had to retract that story. Do try to keep up.
Politifact rates the “forgery” claim as pants on fire.
Politifact is a bunch of lefty hacks that don’t even know the definition of forgery.
Here’s a full examination of xyz’s “defense” of Moore. Read it and weep, peckerwood:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_sham_defense_of_roy_moore.html
Slate? OK, next.
Read it first, asshole.
I knew it!!!
Trent Franks, who announced yesterday that he would resign in January and actually resigned today, reportedly repeatedly pressed a staffer to serve as a surrogate for $5 million. But he apparently meant “surrogacy” in the sense of having intercourse with Congressman Franks and getting pregnant.
I just came back here to comment on that! Apparently this creep did not *believe* in IVF. Given that even Ryan asked him not to let the door hit him, it seems that it might just be this creepy.
Cassandra, you called that one. I’m not gonna ask how you figured it out, I don’t want to know.
That said, $5 million? That’s one expensive baby.
Have you ever read Michelle Goldberg’s Kingdom Coming? It is all about the Dominionist movement and their effort to Taliban-ize America.
I know about the Dominionists, but I didn’t know about the book. I really like Goldberg’s work at the NYT.
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Starting a new thread.
Your previous comment: “She presented the yearbook at the original news conference, and said Moore signed it. Never mentioned at the time she added the inscription below. At best she lied by omission, at worst she committed fraud and forgery.
Pro tip: When your defense is “I only forged part of this document”, start thinking about a plea bargain.
Pro tip: When Gloria Allred is on your side, start looking for the exits.
Pro tip: When trying to win a Senate seat in Alabama, don’t run a pro choice candidate. If the Dems had managed to come up with a reasonable alternative the seat probably would flipping.
Moore leading in RCP average by 3.8. It appears the good people of Alabama can recognize fakes and frauds.”
First, you provide zero links to back up your claims. You could start with FOX… Oops! They retracted it.
Second, she didn’t ““originally attributed the entire inscription to Moore”. (see third point below)
Third, you say, “She presented the yearbook at the original news conference, and said Moore signed it.” This is a true statement. At the original news conference she presented the yearbook as proof she knew Moore, since he was lying about having known her. That’s it. That’s all that news conference was about.
Fourth, you still don’t understand what forgery is.
Fifth, are you really this comfortable defending a man accused of child molestation?
She looked 16, he swears!
For Supreme Court seats and passing bills? Yep.
Which means that any critique you may have about the misbehavior of any Democrat from here on out is invalid. Because if you don’t mide voting for a shild molester, you will tolerate any misbehavior, anywhere.
The Weekly Standard won’t even make the forgery claim. So I think that this means that xzy gets his marching orders from Breitbart.
You have no daughters, I must assume. And if you do have one, I hope she meets Donald Trump. I”m sure you’d be honored to have him paw her.
Cory Booker is already warning that Moore in the Senate now means they need to be extra-protective of Pages.
Nothing like kicking this dead horse………
No, the dead horse is trickle-down economics, and you and your heroes keep trying to claim it’s going to win the Kentucky Derby.
And I’m sure your crying every month, when you look at your investments.
Did you just start investing in January? That’s a shame because you missed out.
Nope, been in Pandy!
Then you must have done really well during the Obama years! Congratulations!
@Anono: Your comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how the stock market works, or what effect government policies have on it. The standard line is that it’s up because businesses are anticipating the tax cuts. The reality is that when you give lots of money to rich people, who already have investments, there are no new places to put it so they bid up stocks. That forms what economists like to call a “bubble,” a poor analogy but there it is.
As for the actual performance of the market under Trump, it went from 18,000 to 22,000, up about 22%. It rose 233% — not a typo — under Obama.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndorfman/2017/10/30/trump-ranks-sixth-in-stock-market-performance-behind-obama-and-clinton/#706bf8a06644
Read and learn.
@ Al. Whatever. All the increases for Obama, was due to George W. Now go back to your CNN and Cocoa.
No, George W crashed the economy. Greatest recession since the Great Depression.
Sorry, I don’t watch TV. Bush did nothing for the economy but wreck it. Now come up with something intelligent or shut up for a change.
Hey AL, go pack sand! Go to your I hate Republican’s meeting, or the DL website. We got DD for the trade, to spew your hatred there and your knitting needles or whatever floats your boat.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
So much for coming up with something intelligent. Do you have a thought in your head, or did it die of lonliness?