Republicans assume that Democrats will shut up about sexual harassment now that Senator Franken has been credibly accused. Wrong. It is time to clean house, and the Senate. And elect a woman President in 2020. If there are Democratic men that we like in statehouses, in the Senate, and/or in the House that have groped women, grabbed pussies, breasts, or in other ways sexually harassed women without their consent, then they must all resign.
Yes, I know it was a different time. Too bad. Yes, I know you were trying to be funny. Too bad. Goodbye.
Don’t be stupid Democrats. Don’t hide from questions. Don’t be scared. Throw Franken and anyone else similarly accused under the bus. Why? Because not only is it long past time to purge sexual predators and just stupid sexually harassing idiot men from government, it is the right thing to do. And it has the side benefit of being the politically right thing to do at this moment. If Franken is forced to resign, the momentum to expel Roy Moore should he win will become irresistible, and the floodgates open for other stories of D/R abuse on Capitol Hill, and then Trump’s treatment of women becomes a very live issue again. And be prepared for some Biden allegations. He always was very touchy feely.
What I assume is that they’ll get Democrats to react immediately because there’s nothing they fear more than looking like hypocrites. Doesn’t anybody remember ACORN? Can we give it, say, 24 more hours before we pull the trigger, or are we stuck in a Skinner box?
There is something to fear worse than looking like hypocrites. It is being one. If Moore or Trump were photographed like this, I would call on them to resign. Same action, same consequence. .
Ever studied rhetoric? You just said the same thing I did. Reacting so as not to be a hypocrite when all you have is a photograph is reacting in fear of being labeled a hypocrite. You can’t actually BE a hypocrite until you say “he should stay.” It’s not a binary choice. You can say stay, go, or you can withhold judgment.
Just once, try withholding judgment. Pandora, too. You don’t get any prize for being first to call for his resignation, and it doesn’t make you better than people who withhold judgment.
There’s more than just a photograph; there’s the woman’s story of him shoving his tongue down her throat as well. As of today, there’s also a stalking allegation.
I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t resign; I’m just clarifying that there was more to it than a distasteful picture.
The photograph is not groping, it is hovering, though a tasteless goof off photo. The shadows and the clue of the more apparent position of the left hand indicates it, though it is impossible to grip anyone’s anatomy through a flac jacket-it is so thick as to be trying to grab through a wall. 2nd, unlike Moore (accused by Republican voting women), Trump and predators like Levinson and Cosby is that Franken has no pattern of sexual allegations, which tend to pile on a public figure once the first is out. She is also a conservative commentator involved in conservative media, including contact over the years with Sean Hannity. This gives seed to a political motivation, and Republicans have played dirty so often. But what worries me and what would be damaging to combatting sexual harrassment is if she is cynically exploiting metoo, boosted by the clowning, tastless souvenier CD photo. Franken says he does not remember a kissing incident as she describes it, and if the fellow who claims to have been his escort officer during the tour is correct, that they were never left alone, and he did not see an incident, then her story may indeed be a hit job, and a good reason why Franken would want the ethics investigation, and she would not, if she had to repeat the story under oath. I haven’t seen this out very much, but TT@TheTabbassco the morning of the accusation claimed that he was Franken’s escort officer assigned to be with him every waking hour (as she also would have had one, likely a female officer), even to the bathroom and he recalls no such incident.
There is not a single allegation from anyone not deeply connected to right-wing media.
I’m sorry, I meant Harvey Weinstein, not Levinson in the list of serial sexual harrassers and abusers.
The sad part is Frankin will (and should) go, but the Grabber In Chief gets to keep on being Teflon Don. Stewart Smelly’s actions, while disqualifying for office, arent nearly as bad as the shit Dump has gotten away with. oh well, IOKIYAR.
Honestly this runs so deep in politics that this picture is the first honest symbol of what takes place. While he was a comedian (I think during) this photo shoot . . . he still ran for office and won. Trump is keeping quiet because his “pussy grabbing” comment is equal to this picture. We need term limits to keep this shit to a minimum as power begets power abuse.
This is Franken’s full statement on this issue:
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/11/16/sen-al-franken-apologizes-asks-senate-ethics-investigation-sexual-harassment.html
Withholding judgement is fine. But are you really doing that, Alby, when over at DL you’re saying things like:
“I dislike swimsuit models. All models, really. I dislike the sexualization of everything in our culture, and she made a nice living at displaying all but the tiniest bit of her naughty bits. If she really cared about the objectification of women she wouldn’t have made a living off people ogling her body.
And before you accuse me, yes, I’m a misogynist.”
That sounds judge-y to me, but at least you know yourself.
And this:
“Any of the women he molested who were beauty pageant contestants were hypocrites too. As are feminists who make a living showing skin. That doesn’t mean they’re fair game, it means I doubt them when they talk about their feelings.
I’m pretty sure you can understand what I’m saying if you try.”
That sounds judge-y too. Your definition of feminism is quite limited as well. It sounds like you’re assigning rules (a dress code, type of job) to women (good girls?). Women are individuals, whether they’re doctors, fast food workers or, yes, swimsuit models.
Selectively quoting always works, doesn’t it?
I made my feelings about this quite clear: I hold the sexualization of every facet of American life despicable, and hold culpable all those who uphold it. Yes, that includes swimsuit models.
I’m not against sex or anyone’s sexuality. I’m against cashing in on it.
Judgy? Damn straight. And so are you.
I’m not the one calling people judge-y and then judging people.
I haven’t weighed in on the Franklin case (that picture is really, really awful and I can’t even begin to excuse it). I also haven’t called for accused child molester Moore to drop out of the race. Just sayin’
The picture is “really, really awful’? How far does your scale go if this is “really, really awful”? In case you don’t get the joke, feeling someone’s breasts through a flak jacket isn’t much of a thrill. It’s not a good joke, I didn’t laugh, but to judge it “really, really awful” shows that you have no emotional balance. This < is what really, really awful looks like. The photo was in poor taste.
I said I wasn't judging what happened in the Franken case, not that I wasn't judging anyone, anywhere, ever. You have a knack for misreading what people type — such a knack that I doubt it's an accident.
Sorry, forgot to close the link.
Splitting hairs. You made a blanket statement and now you want to narrow it. Fine. Just admit it.
What’s obvious is that you really don’t understand sexual harassment. You seem to have different rules on who it applies to.
You seem to think this is debate club. That’s my point — you’re not interested in thinking about this at all. You just want to show everyone what a wonderful, moral person you are.
Never said it wasn’t sexual harassment. I said it wasn’t “really, really awful” and anyone who thinks it is needs to see a shrink.
It’s not debate club? Then why do you feel the need to win the argument. I know, I know, you’re next comment will be, “I don’t need to win anything, I’m just pointing out…” Bullshit. You want the last word and want to be right. The more roadblocks, or contrasting opinions thrown in your way, the more hostile you get. You can’t accept other opinions as relevant and view any contrasting view as a challenge.
Oh, and yes, I am doing the same thing because I have some free time and need to burn off some energy. I await your impeccably crafted and gilded reply.
So, there are degrees of degradation? Your whataboutism use is strong, but as you so often say, no one cares what you think. The fact that you deflect the wrongness of one act by saying another is so much worse means nothing. Comparing sexual assault to human sex trafficking sounds crazy on the surface. Guess what? Both are wrong. Both are crimes. Both are awful. Really, really awful. Don’t belittle one to make an argument.
I’m not belittling it to make an argument. I truly don’t find that photo really, really wrong. Yes, there are degrees of degradation.
Just so we establish this clearly: Any man who has done this in a photograph, or forcibly kissed a woman, should resign immediately. Do I have that right? Or is it just Franken?
No, but you are belittling her view. It’s not for you to judge, unless you have been harassed? Maybe any man who has done this in a photograph without consent should resign. But, also, why is there a need for comparison? Can’t his all be determined on a case by case basis?
Also, calling it “whataboutism” doesn’t make it any different from “moral relativism,” which last time I looked was what liberals believed in. Absolutism is a conservative thing — but then, you SJW liberals have never recognized let alone acknowledged your authoritarianism.
Aren’t you working really hard to make an absolute point? Also, how is moral relativism a liberal belief? Right and wrong do exist in most things. There are some things that are ethically and morally wrong. Regardless of how some choose to defend their position, most can acknowledge that forced actions and unwanted advances are wrong. It is completely different than whataboutism. You choose to make a point with a false comparison.
Yet again, I haven’t called for anyone to resign.
It’s interesting how you have made yourself the judge of what’s “really, really wrong”. Sure, there are differences, but you’re not discussing those – other than how swimsuit models who are sexually harassed or assaulted should… expect this and that they’re hypocrites? You’re making proclamations and also lashing out by relying on right-wing talking points (SJW).
Sexual harassment/assault impacts people differently. There’s a ton of writing and research on the subject.
Without focusing on any particular case, do you think being a man influences what you find “really, really wrong”? I would say that my experience as a women influences how I view sexual harassment/assault. It’s something deeply personal to me.
For DD: Here’s what I’m talking about, from Mark Joseph Stern: “Democrats’ credibility on sexual harassment is at stake”.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/al_franken_should_resign_immediately.html
It’s all about saving yourselves, ourselves if you prefer, from the stain of hypocrisy — as if you’re not hypocrites about anything else. As if fucking Democrats’ biggest shame would be not throwing Franken out of the Senate immediately as opposed to, oh, introducing a payday-lender bill.
Democrats’ credibility is at stake, and thanks to you and Jason, it is now in the trash bin on this issue because you two and your cadre at DL are too weak to stand up on principle. You both decided finally not to be purists anymore. So congratulations. Trump and Moore and their ilk get off scott free because you can’t be bothered to sacrifice our bad apples, perhaps because you all have incidents in your past that you are afraid will come out. Harassers do protect one another.
So… if you liked Bernie you were a purist who was trying to ruin the party – and if you like Franken you are an unprincipled, party hack, sellout. Got it! I guess being a purist is coming into style.
And the only thing a piece of shit like you is pragmatic or practical on is defending sexual harassers. Got it. Go fuck yourself Jason.
You’re not ruining the party because you like Bernie. You’re ruining the party because you do things like call Delaware Dem a “lowlife dumbfuck” just because he/she writes a blog post you disagree with.
Fair enough. In turn, you have such a finely tuned hypocrisy detector, point it toward yourself sometime.
I just love that you equate a debate about single payer vs. public option and a debate about embracing sexual harassers or shunning them. I love how you think they are similar debates in your eyes. Should we also embrace Nazis, Jason? We know you want to embrace the racist white working class voters that voted for Trump.
And to be clear, this comment got caught in our spam filter for some reason. You are not banned here. But I am banned at DL.
You’re banned at DL ? Welcome to the club !
This isn’t a “debate” about embracing sexual harassers or shunning them. That is clearly a straw man. This is a debate about rushing to judgement.
And today I am still perfectly fine with forcing Franken to resign. I haven’t changed my mind on that. It was my first thought when seeing the photo and reading the story. I thought “Fuck, he’s got to go.” My thought was not “Well let’s wait to see if this gets better.” I did not use the weasly words that Republicans used last week about Moore “If these reports are true.” I had all the facts I needed. It’s not a rush to judgment when there is photographic evidence. If this story had been the same but without the photo, then I might have delayed a little bit. But seeing is believing, and I did not have to wait. And I am not going to wait just because Franken is a Democrat.
Jason, I pretty much agree with you about giving Franken a second chance. But you might want to stay away from the “don’t rush to judgment” argument- it’s the exact argument Sean Hannity made about Roy Moore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJgyBb6PrPw
Calling for Franken to quit within 24 hours of a politically motivated hit job is rash. Me saying that Democrats doing that are dumbfucks was impolitic. But… you may ask…. How do I know it is a hit job? I’ve been paying attention to Republicans for a while now. That’s how. And even if I am wrong – what’s wrong with waiting a day or two to prove how holier than thou we all are?
Jason, this is 2017. There is no waiting a day for anything anymore. And how is this a hit job when Franken admits it all? A hit job implies to me false allegations? If Franken immediately admits it, that takes away any notion that it was a hit job. And even if it was a hit job to make Democrats look like sexual harassment hypocrites, guess what? You have fallen right into their trap. The right play, both morally and politically, was to quickly condemn and force him out, so as to put pressure back on the GOP regarding Trump and Moore. You failed.
And for what it is worth, two following two things can be true at the same time and are not mutually exclusive:
1. The allegations against Franken are VERY different from the allegations against Moore and Trump.
2. The allegations are still serious and Democrats standing by Franken are hypocrites
Exactly, Jason. There is no need to compare Moore and Franken to decide wrongness. It’s incomparable. Both exist in their own right. They are both wrong and should not be compared to see which more wrong. Just because one person espouses your side and the other is reprehensible to you, does not mean one has to be right and the other wrong. I’m a huge fan of Franken and his work as a Senator. However, he was wrong in what he did, period. Yes, he handled much better than any other person accused of sexual misconduct. That still doesn’t make him more right.
I don’t understand the “rush to judgement” accusations? He admitted it! Maybe it’s a rush to acknowledgement, because there is no judgement necessary when Franken made it for us.
I realize I too said Franken should get the heave-ho…
Having said that, I agree with many that the person most affected by this, Leanne Tweeden, should be listened to. Not pols, not the president, not bloggers…. But the person who brought this behavior to light.
She doesnt want him to step down. I dont know yet know how, if at all, that changes my personal feelings on what he and his party should do, but i do know we absolutely should be listening to victims.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-franken-accuser-leeann-tweeden-stayed-quiet-angry/story?id=51218706
……She went on, “I didn’t do this to have him step down. I think Al Franken does a lot of good things in the Senate. You know, I think that’s for the people of Minnesota to decide. I’m not calling for him to step down. That was never my intention.”…….
Hit job. Pure and simple. Have you seen the photos of the USO show skit, where they kiss? Or qouted his military escort who denies Franken was ever alone with her? Or quoted the photographer who states the photo of “groping” was staged with her consent? Or how Roger Stone knew about her accusation days before her press release. Oh. Hmmm. Hit job.
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Not even the woman he kissed thinks should resign.
Before ya’ll through AL Franken under the bus wait for all the facts. Sen. Franken has called for an ethics violation probe for a reason. I’ve read accounts that suggest she was in on the picture. I don’t know if it’s true but let’s wait before we ruin his career.
I’ve also seen a picture of Leeann Tweeden grabbing the guitarists ass while on the same USO Tour. Should she be fired from her job? Maybe a lot of people on the tour were a little touchy fèely? I don’t know but please just wait and see.
Oh, boy, “Let’s wait 24 hours and see how this plays out.” OMG he’s a Democrat, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/politics/al-franken-inappropriate-touch-2010/index.html
i think that was meant for DL, no?